my brother in law is refurbing his f2 over the winter and is thinking of changing his watts linkage for a panhard rod . My question is is it worth doing it .

rule of thumb, look at what top lads have, Sworder-Panhard, Kitson-Panhard, Moodie-Panhard, Goldin-Panhard...Thakra? think its Panhard too

Watts linkage is a very nice techical solution which keeps the axle located without any wander laterally during suspension loading, but the panhard rod keeps everything as near as damn it where it's suposed to be, and its much easier/quicker to adjust the rear roll centre height.

..... some times!

Ive got a pan handle too lol but hey what the heck do I know.

smurf826

yes but all them have torque arms!

Dare i ask. whats a torque arm please.

its a way of dealing with the the torsion forces from the axle, so that the fore/aft location arms do not get loaded with those forces. i.e another link (usually loaded in bending) is used to control the torque from the axle, in addition to those links controlling the fore/aft location, and allowing the spring and damper to do their job. The panhard rod is usually independant of that job as it is normally there to control lateral location only, and you could use a watts linkage for that job if you wanted. I have not seen these torque arms suspensions up close so can't honestly say if they really are torque arm or decoupled systems. The birdcage ( a kind of decoupled suspension layout) are banned specifically in the rule book but decoupled suspension designs are not. Even if decoupled suspension was banned specifically, anyone using the torque arm solution could still argue that its not a decoupled system, although it does go part way towards one.

Also seems to be a bit of discussion on what the rule book says and what is the spirit of the rule in the book... to ban decoupled suspension? dunno....... but as I see it it doesn't, it just bans birdcages.

Am just learning about this stuff myself.....so might have got a bit mixed up, but I think that's about it....

pictures say a thousand words...

take a look in the photos section at Mick Sworders car (jacked up) in the Barford 21.10.07 English open.

One photo shows the car has only one trailing arm link each side, not the usual two, and the photo from the rear shows the frame around the diff/axle that supports the torque arm. You can't actually see the torque arm in these photos, but I'm pretty sure thats what the frame around the diff is, i.e. the mounting framefor the torque arm which will be parallel to the prop. shaft.

Its got panhard rod for lateral location too, which like I said before just makes it easier to alter the rear roll centre height. The Watts linkage is usually not adjustable, you design it with the roll centre height you want and then thats it. You can then (usually) only alter the front to rear balance using the front suspension roll centre.

Well thats the DK solution, the RCE one is different, but can't say I have looked at it or seen much in the way of clues in photos...

The photos of boxes around the front part of the rear suspension links have just raised my interest though ;-) Just guessing, but the two location arms are probably linked to a lever which is pivoted in the centre (to the chassis), and then the torque is dealt with using a separate link to the top of the diff, similar to the birdcage set up, but not a birdcage set up...

I agree pictures say a thousand words. Just can't see the pictures

I bet Jaybo knows what they are now even though you've got me confused

This should give you an idea.

The Watt's linkage is as an improvement over the Panhard rod as a means of locating a rear beam axle of a car relative to the body and preventing relative movement side to side. Whereas the Panhard rod is pivoted at both axle and body forcing the axle to move in an arc, thus introducing a sideways component into the vertical movement of the axle, the Watts linkage ensures pure vertical motion.

If set up correctly Watts should be better than panhard rod.

I have not been to a f2 meeting for years, but from what i am reading, i would guess all these new stars would be driving the car loose. interesting to see how there car is handling in the last 5 laps of the race...

I remember when everyone wanted an A FRAME because speak was using one on his old HCD, Then it was back to watts when he moved on to his higgy and elite...

I guarantee watts will make a return in the coming years.

stick with the watts.... and eductate yourself through reading engineering books. Looking at what kitson does or doesnt do wont eductate you (only confuse the hell out of everything)